Democratic Presidential Debate Is Ears Only

Debating for the second time in three days, Democratic presidential hopefuls renewed their scuffling Tuesday over taxes and personalities, but they also addressed issues as disparate as obesity and restricting snowmobiles in national parks.

Front-runner Howard Dean bore the brunt of the assaults, led by Sens. John F. Kerry of Massachusetts and Joe Lieberman of Connecticut. The two suggested that Dean’s proposal to repeal President Bush’s tax cuts -- a stance he shares with Rep. Dick Gephardt of Missouri -- would amount to a tax hike on the hard-pressed middle class.

Citing higher tuition and health care costs as well as increases in local property taxes, Kerry said, “Nothing that Howard proposes is lowering that burden. In fact, he’s going to add to it.”

“Hogwash,” Dean replied, asserting that his proposals would not only make college and health care more affordable but would also reduce property taxes by funding education programs now financed by local governments. In reality, he said, most Americans received little real benefit from Bush’s tax cuts.

“Middle-class people get a better deal from President Dean,” he said.

The debate, lasting about two hours, was one of the longest of the more than two dozen candidate forums over the last year. It was also unique because of the radio-only format; it was the first presidential debate to exclude TV cameras since 1948, according to the sponsor, National Public Radio.

It was held at a studio in Des Moines, 13 days before Iowa kicks off the presidential nominating process. Three of the nine Democrats running -- retired Army Gen. Wesley K. Clark, Sen. John Edwards of North Carolina and the Rev. Al Sharpton -- skipped the session.

The six candidates who took part -- including a tieless Kerry and jacketless Gephardt -- sat around a U-shaped table fielding questions from moderator Neal Conan. Many were submitted by listeners via e-mail.

Familiar topics included the Iraq war. Rep. Dennis J. Kucinich of Ohio noted that he was the only candidate to back an immediate pullout of U.S. troops.

Dean, who has made opposition to the war a centerpiece of his candidacy, countered that it would be irresponsible to “pull out precipitously” now that U.S. troops occupy Iraq. He refused to give a withdrawal timetable. “It’s not responsible to give you a deadline because there’s work to be done, and until the work is done, we can’t leave,” said the former Vermont governor.

The candidates renewed their scrapping over taxes, prompted by an e-mail submitted by a man in New Hampshire.

In contrast to Dean and Gephardt -- who lead the polls in Iowa -- Kerry and Lieberman favor repealing only the portions of the Bush tax cut that benefit the wealthiest Americans.

Lieberman said rolling back other provisions would end up hurting the middle class and amount to political suicide. “I don’t know of a case where a Democratic candidate for president has been elected who called for a massive increase in taxes on the middle class,” said Lieberman, who has called for additional tax cuts for middle-income Americans. “These are our people.”

Kerry was jabbed by Gephardt, who accused him of undermining Social Security by proposing a one-year payroll “tax holiday” for businesses and their workers. “I think that’s a risky proposal,” said Gephardt, who is counting heavily on support from Iowa’s older voters. “I don’t see how we beat George Bush if we’re going to undermine Social Security as part of our tax system.”

Kerry said his plan was designed to give a lift to low- and middle-income earners and would not hurt Social Security.

Another question from a listener, about Dean’s temper, prompted a pointed exchange, with some coaxing from the moderator. Lieberman suggested that one reason many Americans were turned off by politics was the increased polarization between the two major parties. Asked by Conan whether there were any “polarizers” present, Lieberman said: “Howard Dean has said a number of things that are polarizing. He has represented anger. Anger has fueled his campaign.”

In response, Dean cited the endorsement he received earlier Tuesday from former Sen. Bill Bradley of New Jersey. Bradley and former Vice President Al Gore -- who also has endorsed Dean -- waged a tough fight for the 2000 Democratic nod.

“If I can begin to bridge the gap between Bill Bradley and Al Gore

The low-key, conversational tone of the forum lent itself to discussion of topics that have rarely, if ever, come up.

Asked about the kind of Supreme Court justices they would appoint, Lieberman and Dean cited David H. Souter, a relative moderate appointed by the elder President Bush. Kucinich pointed to the more liberal Ruth Bader Ginsburg, who was appointed by President Clinton.

Asked about providing public services to illegal immigrants, Dean touted a proposal he called “earned legalization” that would allow citizenship for U.S. residents “who have been here a long time, no matter how they got here” so long as they had worked hard, paid taxes and stayed out of trouble.

Responding to a separate question, Gephardt suggested that “there are good reasons” to give driver’s licenses to illegal immigrants, although he said it was also important to enforce immigration laws.

Snowmobiling came up during a brisk yes-or-no round of questioning. All six candidates said they support limits on the off-road vehicles in Yellowstone and other national parks, although Dean differed somewhat by saying that implementation should be left to National Park Service experts, rather than lawmakers. Asked a follow-up, all -- save Lieberman -- said they had ridden a snowmobile at least once.

The candidates agreed that obesity was a major health care problem deserving of presidential attention.

Kerry, who windsurfs among other leisure pursuits, promised White House leadership on the fitness issue. Lieberman said the government should investigate the marketing of junk food to young people. And Kucinich and former Sen. Carol Moseley Braun of Illinois touted their proposals for universal health care. Education is the remedy, Moseley Braun said, not “Big Brother telling people what to eat.”

Another Iowa debate is set for Sunday.

Times staff writer Matea Gold in Des Moines contributed to this report.